Heyyyy and welcome to another episode of Brand it! with Petchy, where today I’m joined by Christine Baird – a media producer who teaches small business owners how to use podcasting and YouTube to attract their dream customers.

After six years in corporate sales, Christine did a career 180 and has been working in podcasting, event production, and influencer branding since 2014. She worked on Lewis Howes’ brand, The School of Greatness, for four years, where she got to grow his top-ranked podcast from less than 1 million downloads to over 80 million.

In 2019 she pivoted to supporting more brands launch and grow their shows and impact. She is the owner of a boutique media production house, Worthfull Media, where she trains teams to become in-house producers of high-quality media.

Christine hosts her own podcast, Worthfull Project, and is the co-host of the Think Like a Producer podcast. She’s passionate about owning her worth and inspiring others to do the same.

Since podcasting and YouTubing for business marketing has hit the mainstream, many business owners feel the desire or pressure to create this kind of media to market their businesses. But how do you make sure that the shows you’re creating will get you the return on investment you’re looking for? This is the foundation of what Christine teaches her clients, and it’s also the starting point for our conversation today.


Disclaimer: The following transcript has been auto-generated and then cleaned up by my wonderful VA – and while the general flow of the conversation is there, it’s probably not 100% accurate.

P: Christine, welcome to the Brand it podcast. I am so excited for the conversation that we’re about to have. 

C: Thank you. I’m excited, too. 

P: I’m glad. You know what, to be honest, though maybe I’m just a little bit nervous about what might emerge as our conversation develops today because we’re going to be talking about high-yield media for your business and how to make sure that the shows that you’re creating will actually get you the return on investment that you’re looking for. Obviously as a podcast host myself I have a feeling, a slight hunch, I might get some a-ha moments today. 

C: Well, I hope if they come, they will be encouraging and inspiring. I never want anyone to feel  ‘I’m doing terribly,’ because I don’t think there’s a right way to do media. I think we all have a unique ability to do media well. So that’s the intention for you and everyone listening today. It’ll be really inspiring and encouraging. 

P: I love it. So before we really dive in, let’s set the tone for the episode. So tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do, and what our listeners can expect to take away from the episode today. 

C: Okay, so my name is Christine. I am a professional podcast producer, but really, that means I’m also a professional video producer, an online course producer, and in general, media producer because of how podcasting has evolved. I got into this industry eight years ago. It’s a pretty hilarious story, but I was a fan of podcasts in the early days, and I emailed one of the hosts of the shows I’ve been listening to, which back in 2014 was not that big of a deal.

But it’s become a pretty big show called “The School of Greatness” hosted by Louis House. Long story short, I ended up moving to Los Angeles and becoming the producer of that show.  for about four years, and it was an incredible experience and I learned a lot. Then after four years I was a little tired so I decided to step away from producing the show. I left L. A. and I moved to the mountains, Utah, in the U. S. Over the last three years, I’ve just been blessed with the opportunity to sort of build a boutique production house for small business owners who want a podcast and YouTube.

What has been extraordinary about sort of stumbling into being a business owner and working as a media producer is that it’s taught me so much about how every single one of us has the capacity to create high-quality, impactful, helpful, media. But it’s not just a given, most of us don’t just have that talent magically. It’s a skill we can learn. When we do learn how to do it sustainably, and ethically, and with a really good return on investment for our time and energy, it can be the coolest, best thing ever.

It can also, on the flip side, become just the biggest money/ time energy suck ever. So my passion over time has become guiding and supporting, yes through editing and production and doing all the heavy lifting, but also through training and coaching clients. Let’s figure out the show, and the media type that would actually play to your strengths, actually bring you the return on investment you want, and help you avoid that terrible trap we’re all too familiar with, comparisonitis. 

So that’s where I am currently. I feel I’m constantly evolving, and so I mean, I don’t have it all figured out, but I’ve been really lucky with the opportunities I’ve had, so it’s truly a joy for me to share anything that’s helpful.

P: I love that. And I also love that you make it sound not very intimidating, which is really nice. 

C: Good, I’m so glad.

P:  Not that I’d center my episodes around me, but when I started thinking about producing my own podcast, I was thinking about it for two years before it actually happened. I was over analysing, and I was feeling all the feels, and my inner critic was so, so, so strong. But then, I realised that there’s an opportunity here, and if I don’t grab it someone else is going to. So I just got over myself and did it, and I’m really glad that I did. But obviously, podcasting, that’s one part of it, and there’s a lot of work involved in producing a podcast. So I’m glad I didn’t also dive into the whole sort of YouTube thing at the same time, because I would have, yeah… 

C: Yeah, you’re very wise to have gone at your own pace, I completely respect that.

P:  But there are so many opportunities now, it’s all becoming mainstream almost, and it’s almost  if you don’t have a podcast, if you don’t have a YouTube channel or preferably both, then you’re doing it wrong, which I think is just ridiculous. I’m not here for that. But obviously, it can be such a great opportunity. So how do you figure that out? How do you figure out ‘OK, do I do a podcast? Do I do YouTube? Do I do both? None? How do you start to unravel that? That’s something I would love to dive into because I figured we probably have some listeners who maybe are thinking ‘Maybe I should have a podcast or a YouTube channel.’

C: Oh, my gosh, it’s the perfect question. If you haven’t asked yourself this, it’s probably only a matter of time until you do ask yourself this. So, yes, I absolutely have thoughts on this, and mostly because I’ve had the privilege to work with dozens of small business owners who oftentimes have a coaching business or some kind of business that revolves around the personal brand. So a podcast just feels  a really great fit because they’re not a faceless, big company. They’re like ‘No, it’s pretty much me and maybe a small team,’ and that’s kind of really well set up. It’s, ‘Well, I could be the host, people know my business because of me. So I do want to validate that this is not a crazy idea and Petchy is saying, you absolutely can do this. We’re both proof. I’m a podcast host, you’re a podcast host. 

The best way I have found to guide anyone through this decision process is what is the actual return on investment that you would love to get out of having a show. I’ll just say show for right now because we’re going to assume that could mean a podcast. It could mean a YouTube channel. It could mean both. I’ll just say show, and then we’ll kind of get into deciding between the two. When I ask potential customers this question, it’s always very telling because sometimes they immediately have the answer. Sometimes they’re, ‘Oh well,  just exposure and maybe I can make some money.’  Just these sort of big ideas, which I get because If you’ve seen a bunch of people in your space host podcasts and talk about, ‘I have a million downloads and it’s been at the top of the charts, and I had just had the best interview of my life with my dream icon.’ You’re like, ‘Oh, that’s what a podcast does.’

But if you spent some time thinking through the actual return on investment that would be the most meaningful to you, you’ll probably come up with a different answer. Some of the most common, this doesn’t have to be for you, but let me just give you some ideas. You might be ‘‘Christine, what are you talking about?’ So for some people, I’m going to specifically talk to small business owners because I think that’s our audience here. For some people, it’s going to be absolutely getting in front of your target market and giving really good previews of what it’s like to pay to work with you. I mean, to state the obvious, that’s a very effective marketing strategy. So that might be the return on investment. You’re, ‘I want to get in front of my target market and show them what it’s like to work with me so that they are just dying to get into my waitlist, to book my product.’

For some people, it’s actually they already have a great kind of client stream, and they’re looking to elevate their position within their industry. They want to kind of be more recognised by their peers and move a little bit more into, for lack of a better term, thought leader. So they’re looking to just have almost  a publication,  ‘I don’t want to write a book, but I have a lot of really expert things to share that people value. And I think my industry could have a better idea of my expertise if I was able to share it.’ So in that way it’s more  an educational resource, and you might gear that towards your peers. You might get it towards your customers. You might gear it towards, I’ve even had clients who have a bigger company, and they’re looking to recruit really great talent. So having a podcast gives prospective employees a really good insight into how their company works and that can be  a great recruiting tool. 

That’s not directly monetary, but it can be super effective when all your peers in your industry listen to your show because they’re like, ‘Oh, she’s brilliant,’  that can open a lot of doors.

Then a third return on investment that’s pretty popular is just truly networking, Petchy and I are having a relationship now because of her podcast. We would never have crossed paths, we live in different countries. So I have some clients who are like , ‘I don’t even care who listens. I truly want to have a podcast just to have an excuse, to have great conversations and start relationships or expand relationships with people I met somewhere else. It’s , Hey, come on my show’ 

I’ve seen this with my own eyes because I was an in-house Producer in L.A. for a few years, and so I was there for every recording, and it was a pretty high profile shows so some big wigs went on it. But I would see what would happen before and after the recording, and it was the best networking of all time. After just one great episode recording, it’s like, ‘Hey, what are you doing this weekend? Come to my mastermind. I’m going to a party. You need to come. I’ll introduce you to so and so.’ 

You’ve heard Podcast hosts say this, but they’ll say having a podcast episode with the guest is better than a first date because your phones are away. You literally turn your phone off because you don’t want to interrupt the recording, and you’re totally focused on each other for 30 or 60 minutes. Truly think about it, when is the last time you were on even a date that was that undivided of attention. 

P: True, true. 

C: It’s funny, but it’s true, right? I’ve even heard Podcast hosts who, sometimes they’ll have their spouse on as a guest, and they’re like, ‘This is our quality time, but this is the most time I’ve had with you all month,’

P: That’s brilliant.

C: I know, we giggle about it in the podcast world, you can make fun of yourself.

Okay, and then I want to kind of introduce the fourth return on investment that might make just a tonne of sense for you. These are again, this is hopefully just getting the wheels turning, this is not the only way. But there’s a really interesting sort of new chapter of podcasting opening up that’s called subscription shows, premium shows, and private shows. There’s a different number of names for them, but it’s the ability to actually create content just for a specific part of your audience that wants to pay you for it.

So instead of having to get paid through sponsorships or selling your own products and services, there is an opportunity now where you can have a show just sort of think about early days. It was like Patreon, but now podcast platforms directly allow this. So you could have, if you’re the type of person who is an educator and people just absolutely love learning from you, then it might make a tonne of sense for you to just have a subscription based show. Your listeners literally just pay you a small monthly fee to have access to your show.

That is more of an emerging channel. I wouldn’t say it’s like ‘everybody do it tomorrow!’ You obviously need to have a pretty big audience already for that to make sense monetarily. But I think it’s very exciting because previous to now the only ways to get paid directly by your listeners was you had to have a network TV show or radio show. You either got paid by sponsors, or you pretty much had to have a TV show. Now there’s a whole new world emerging where I think we’ll see this a lot more in the future.

So that’s how I want you to think of return on investment. Just open your mind and start to think, ‘What do I really, really value?’

P: I just want to dive in and say I’m so glad that you said what you just said because I’ve been nodding along. People can’t see this, but I’ve been nodding along all the way because I think a lot of people, when they hear return on investment, they think of money, cash in hand. When I think of the time and the effort that I put into producing my podcast, it’s fairly low key compared to some of the big players out there. But it’s still a significant time and money investment for me personally. I mean, there’s the software I use, and there’s the time I spend researching, scripting, recording, editing, promoting it, all of that stuff. In terms of direct cash in hand, ROI, that’s pretty much non-existent for me. I mean, yeah, you’d be forgiven for thinking, ‘But why the heck are you doing it?’ 

The answer to that, for me, is all of those things that you mentioned. There are so many other reasons for me to have this podcast. It allows me to connect with a whole bunch of really interesting people. My guests, then they in turn, often they actually introduced me to their audiences again, or they introduce me to other people that they feel would be great for me to have in my orbit or someone’s podcast I could be a good fit for. Then the snowball just  starts to roll. It’s allowed me also to articulate and develop a stronger voice within my field, within what I do. If you’d asked me a couple of years ago I’d be like, ‘Oh, I don’t know, I don’t really know.’ 

It’s just given me confidence, which is I mean, you can’t really put a value on that, can you?

C: I’m so glad you brought up that fifth one because it’s also one of my favourites. I was attempting to keep my list concise, but I’m with you. Becoming a podcast host myself, I host one and I co-host another, it’s so valuable to practise speaking over and over what I do, how I can help, my different areas of expertise. I think it’s easy to overlook that because we feel like, ‘Oh my gosh, I talk about it all day,’ But do we? Using your voice to say it to another person is an actual skill. So I’m so glad you brought that one up.     

P: Yeah, and I was really shy. I hardly ever showed up before I started my podcast, I was stumbling with my words. I didn’t really know how to articulate what it is that I do, what I help people with. I don’t have that many episodes yet, I’m 53 three episodes in or something by this point, but if people were to go back and listen to my first few episodes and then listen to one of my latest ones, I’m pretty sure they would be able to tell a massive difference in how I present myself and how confident I sound because confidence can come through in your voice. 

C: Absolutely. I’m so glad you said that and anyone listening if you don’t believe us, go to your favourite podcast ever and listen to the very first episode. Unless you were a fan from day one, you might not have noticed the evolution. It will never, ever, ever be as good as the current episodes. I don’t care how professional you are. It is a skill. So I always tell people to do that. 

P: I think it’s sound advice as well, and it’s one of the things that I think that surprised me the most about the process. 

C: Yeah, and I’m so glad you’re saying that because it’s more valuable to hear a fellow podcaster than just to say ‘ Well, Christine’s here and whatever, she’s the expert.’  I am also a podcast host and yes, I’m a producer and blah, blah, blah.

But I think this actually is a good transition. If you want me to still finish the second part of…

P: I do, I’m sorry I interrupted, you know, I get so carried away sometimes 

C: I’m so glad you did, because it’s always nice to have a little break and then move on to this part two of a question. 

So it does transition us to what you said. How does someone listening decide really thoughtfully and strategically, Should I do an audio podcast? Should I do a YouTube channel? Should I do both? Should I do none?

So now what we’re going to talk through is return on investment and  a lot of these skills and besides investment, the benefits and perks to having a show that you may not have thought of. 

Let’s get really strategic about the platform you may choose, because audio podcasting is incredible and unique, and let’s just review really quick. You might already be sold on it, but let’s just review. One you don’t have to get camera ready, which is super time saving. You don’t have to worry about the lighting. You could do it in the middle of the night, if that’s when you have time, it’s just so much easier to get the thing done. So that’s a huge one, especially if you, during the last couple of years have been working entirely from home and you might have a lot going on in your house. And you’re like, ‘No way is there a camera ready space, that’s not happening. So for one, it’s way easier to just record.

Two, it’s way easier to consume. What I mean by that is your audience, your people who are consuming your show, they don’t have to have their eyeballs looking at it. They can literally listen to your show while they’re doing anything else. Think about when you listen to podcasts: cooking, running, working out, running errands, cleaning the house, waiting in the carpool line. They become a companion to your listeners’ lives, and that’s why everyone talks about this magical intimacy of podcasting. It’s unlike any other media because you’re literally in people’s ears as they do their normal life.

So those are two super, really attractive reasons to audio podcast: way easier to get it recorded and produced and it’s really easy for people to listen to at any time.

Now. Let’s bring in video and talk about what If you did want to go onto YouTube? Well, there’s a huge perk on being on YouTube because we know it’s a search engine. Google owns YouTube. Everything you put on YouTube is really highly ranked in search results. It’s really easy to discover your show on YouTube as long as you’re labelling it, titling it, and putting the keywords in the description that people would be searching for.

So for discoverability, it’s unbelievably good to be on YouTube. It’s quite a bit harder to have your podcast just magically discovered by someone searching. Podcast apps have not really gotten there yet. We’re getting them there, but they’re not quite there yet, So discoverability is kind of hard for audio podcasters. For YouTube, this thing was built for discoverability, so you automatically are much more easily found, and we’re talking about a global audience as well, right? There’s still quite a bit of limitation on podcast apps. It’s getting way better, but you can’t just be found by every country and every platform. YouTube has quite a bit bigger reach.

So that’s one really compelling reason to be on YouTube. But what’s also compelling about being on video with your show is that people get to know more of you, right? We know this, when you watch a YouTube video you get to see the body language and the energy and the mannerisms, and it just kind of speeds up that process of an audience getting you. For lack of a better term,  they get you.

If you want to do any kind of public speaking as part of your business, you will light years, accelerate your trajectory by recording video of yourself. Not only does it help booking agents and people who might book you to speak get it a lot quicker, but it also to your point earlier Petchy, it helps you get a lot more comfortable in front of a camera in front of an audience. As we know in today’s world, in 2022, a lot of speaking is happening over video anyway. So building in that skill set of getting really confident on camera, getting a setup that is looking good and you can jump on at any time for anything, it just expands your abilities. 

Now you might be  ‘No Christina, zero desire to do public speaking’ great. Let me give you one more reason why video might just be the sweet spot for you. One, video as we know, has been whatever and all the cool kids are doing it. Meaning all the technology, all the apps, all the platforms are becoming video first because the world is evolving. We’re becoming super connected globally, and video is the vehicle. So if you’re thinking long term, where do I want to build my company or my brand to be in five and 10 years, video is here to stay. 

So it’s a longer road, YouTube channels don’t just sprout up overnight and become thousands of subscribers But if you look at YouTubers who have consistently, and I’m not talking about every youtuber, I’m talking about small business owners who YouTube for a podcast to market their business (super niche!) If they’ve done it, started a year ago and been consistent, this pays off. It’s a long road, but it pays off. Your audience over there can become really loyal. The comments in YouTube are really interactive. You have an ability to talk back to your audience, which podcast apps don’t really allow for. So there’s just a lot of juicy value in being on a platform  YouTube for the long haul. It’s not a quick route to fame or fortune. Neither is podcasting. 

P: You’re almost selling it to me!

C: I’m almost selling it to you. Now let me give you the other things to consider. Video takes a lot more work. Now it doesn’t have to be  studio level quality. Not at all. Literally you can’t see this because this is an audio podcast. But Petchey could just be recording the video of what we’re doing right now. We’re looking at each other on a platform called Squadcast and she could just post this video to YouTube. The technology and the tools to get video up quickly is light years ahead of where it was when I started eight years ago in this industry.

So it’s way easier than it’s ever been and I don’t want to skip over that. However, even though the technology is way easier, it’s still more work. No matter which way you cut the cake, it’s more work to be doing video production and so that’s just something you got to think through. Do I have the bandwidth? Does anyone on my team have the skills? Even if we’re doing a really simple video somebody’s got to get it, somebody’s got to kind of clean it up, get it ready, post it, put in different things. So be realistic about your bandwidth. Audio will be just way easier to get the thing done. 

And two, once you post a video up on the Internet, it’s there forever and you just want to be thoughtful. Do I want this video on my channel for the long haul? I’m not going to go into a whole thing about it, but I just want you to be thoughtful about what your brand identity is. Is the video I’m creating and putting up actually aligned with that not just for right now, this moment, but for the longer haul.

So two things to consider. Do I have the bandwidth, whether it’s me or someone on my team and the bandwidth I have, is that going to let me create video that actually feels it’s aligned with my brand? Because you do not have to spend a fortune on video production anymore. You of course can, but I just want you to be really thoughtful about that. There’s some really cool things happening with YouTube and podcasting that are coming out. YouTube hired its first head of podcasting last year; they’re going to be rolling out cooler and cooler tools for podcasters but it doesn’t mean you have to start a YouTube channel today. It’s an entirely different strategy than a podcast, so you have to be willing to learn the system, and the algorithm, and how to do it. It will pay off big time if you do it, but it will pay off big time over the years. 

P: I’m really glad that you can be open and transparent about that. It’s not just to start something and it’s easy, and that you have to weigh up the pros and the cons to see what you can actually fit into what your daily schedule looks like .

I know for me, and I know a lot of my listeners are solo business owners. I know that even just the thought of doing one is overwhelming. So obviously I started with podcasting. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Oh, but you could just upload an audio file with a still image onto YouTube’ and I’m like ‘I guess I could, but aren’t people on YouTube because they want to watch videos? And wouldn’t that kind of defeat the objective? Yes, maybe it will help some people find me. If I was to make the transition at some point, when I, A- get more confident on video and B- have a team that can help me. I’m not diving into video editing, no way. But if at some point in the future, I decide that I’m going to venture into YouTube in addition to the podcast, I want to do it properly. I just don’t want to just add up an audio file with a still image and call it a video because it’s not.

C: I love you’re so thoughtful, you literally know what aligns with your brand, your bandwidth, you just answered so spot on for you what the answer is right now. I do think you made a really good point that there are options galore. There’s so many ways to make video work for you. There’s absolutely podcasters who put up the audio file only just for discoverability, and it works great for them. That’s what works for their brand that works for where they’re at.

But if that doesn’t fit for you, don’t do it. It would be out of alignment, and you wouldn’t really be excited, and you wouldn’t put the energy behind it to make it successful. I think that’s the real theme today that you and I had chatted about prior to recording.  Sustainability and getting super clear about why you’re doing the show is the ticket to success. No matter if it’s an audio only podcast, a YouTube channel, whatever other new platforms come out, they’re constantly evolving.

P: It’s always going to be something new that you could jump on. 

C: Always going to be something new, always. 

P: There’s always going to be something new and shiny, we can talk about shiny object syndrome for years. 

C: Clubhouse, Twitter spaces, the list goes on. 

P: Yeah, but there’s a cost to being on all of the platforms and not just in money, but in mental capacity and time. My time is precious. I’m not going to jump on every new thing  just for the sake of being there.

C: That is such a good  strategy for success. 

P: I love that you are kind of now leading up into a little segway into the next part that we spoke about before we started this recording, which is playing to your strength and how that really is essential if you’re going to have success at this and if you’re going to keep going.

So how can someone begin to assess what their strengths are? How do you know?  You’ve got to start somewhere,

 C: It’s such an excellent question and one of the things I think is most helpful, especially because remember, we’re not super great at self-awareness-we are but only to an extent- is to literally write it down if you need to on a note. What is the feedback I consistently get from people who know me professionally or even personally, about what I’m good at?

Because if you’re constantly the type of person who every time you go to a dinner and people are chatting with you, they’re like ‘you are amazing at conversation, I loved talking with you. We have to do this again. You’re an incredible listener. You have the coolest..’  That is feedback that you are really good at hosting conversation. Take note of that. If you are constantly asked by your peers in your industry to guest appear on their shows, take note.  This is feedback that you probably have the natural talent to hold and host thoughtful, interesting conversation.

In another bucket, you might get a lot of feedback where people just say ‘I love listening to you talk. I love listening to you on Instagram. I could hear you talk all day.’ and that’s probably feedback that conversation-don’t need to do it. You could truly have a solo show where all you do is share your expertise.That might be the feedback that you’re a really great teacher, you are a really great speaker. You are a trusted authority and expert, and people  just want to hear it straight from you because the way that you speak works for people.

In that situation, I would say you could interview guests, but I probably keep that to a minimum and really focus your show on you sharing your expertise. 

You might also get feedback that you’re just super entertaining. Think about it. How much do people give you feedback that they think you’re so funny, you’re so entertaining? They love having you around. That might give you permission to do something you had never thought of. What if I do kind of a fun show where it’s short and maybe I do little sketches or I tell stories? Maybe I have a narrative style podcast. This is all going to come from the feedback that other people give you. 

Now, if you’re like ‘I have no idea Christine. I’ve been in a pandemic for two years and talk to no one. What are you talking about feedback?’ I would say put together a small list of ideas you have for your show and then ask for feedback. Post it on social media if you have an audience there or talk to your friends, or put a group email together and say, ‘Hey, I have been thinking for a while about starting a show, here’s a couple of my ideas. I would love your thoughts if one of these resonates with you. Or what do you think about me as a host for this kind of a show?’

 The sooner you get your circle of people who are interested in investing in what you do, giving you feedback, your show already has legs. The problem that I sometimes run into with a new client is they’ll come to me and they’ll say, ‘I’ve got this amazing idea for a show. This is what it’s called, this is the format. This is what I’m doing. We’re launching it on this day. Get it done.’ and I’m like ‘Great, who’s your audience for the show? And sometimes it’s a little bit crickety because they’re like ‘Just, you know, people who follow me.’ I’m like ‘Okay have you asked them about whether they are interested in the show?’ Because I think it’s so easy for us sometimes to assume. Let’s say you have worked really hard to build a large social media following, or maybe you have a great email list that you’ve developed over the years.

It’s easy to think ‘Yeah, everyone on social media is going to subscribe to my show. Everyone on my email list, of course, they’re going to subscribe.’

Well, it actually turns out that audio and video shows command a very different audience than social media, than emails,s than live events. So you really do want to think through what is the feedback people give me and what has my audience asked me for when it comes to me showing up as either a host of conversations or me sharing directly my expertise, do they actually want it in audio form? Are they begging for it in video? Do they want me to just write? Maybe they’re like ‘what we really wanted from you for years is an email list.’

 You’ve got to think through and talk to your audience about it, and that will help you skip light years of trial and error and get to a show format that actually plays to your strengths. “If you’re listening to this conversation and you’re like ‘Oh my gosh, I am realising right now that everyone has always told me they love my writing.’ Maybe that’s where you focus. You don’t need a podcast. You don’t need a YouTube channel. If writing is your thing, maybe you go all in on writing. Maybe if live events speaking  you just get the most incredible feedback from speaking at live events. Maybe that’s where you go all in. You don’t have to have a podcast if you realise the feedback is always pushing me towards these other zones of genius. Follow your strengths, they will not do you wrong. 

P: Another thing I wanted to just pull in because I think it kind of fits in with what we’ve been talking about is how important it is to kind of look at your podcast or your YouTube channel and have a think about where that sits on your audience’s client or potential client journey with you. Especially because I know that we have a lot of small business owners listening to us today. I just wanted to point out that you might have a well-defined target audience for your business, and your ideal client might actually be two or three steps ahead of your ideal podcast listener. For my podcast this is true. I work with people,I have packages that most startups and solo business owners certainly it would be a stretch for most of them in the first years. But my podcast is here. I’m providing it for free, and they can learn from that, get to know me, grow their brands. Then hopefully, by the time they are making enough money to make that investment, they’ve warmed up to me so much that I am on their short list of people who they want to get in touch with for branding. 

I think it’s really important to have that kind of forward thinking. So your podcast audience may well be different to your ideal client, and it all depends on where they are on your on the path of getting to know you and hopefully buying from you in the end.

C: You said it. That was brilliant, it’s exactly the truth. I always think of podcasts, YouTube channels as  your entry level free product. People pay you with attention, right and not paying you with money they’re paying you with their attention, their time. But that is a transaction, and it is a relationship. If you end up getting a loyal subscriber to your show they’re already so invested, because let’s think about it, our time is precious. How many podcasts do you really listen to regularly? Only your absolute favourites, right? 

P: Probably three to  five.

C: Exactly, me, too. So you absolutely don’t look over the already transactional equity you could say you’re building with podcasts or YouTube subscribers. They absolutely are paying you with their attention, and like you said, that can pay off in so many ways. Maybe it’s because they eventually hire you, maybe it’s because they refer you. They become your marketing team. They listen to you every week so you’re at the top of their mind when their friends asked them, Who do you know whose great brander? ‘Oh my gosh, I listen to the great show. You should check her out!’

That is absolutely a huge return on investment, that it’s easy to overlook because it doesn’t have a price tag directly tied to it. But think about it, your show could be vetting all of your next clients for you. So by the time they get to you and put down the money, they’re already on board it. 

P: Yeah, and also there’s the point that, well, I see it all the time, especially with female business owners, small business owners. We want to help everyone, and we are worried that if we charge rates that are compatible with the life that we want to live, then there are going to be some people who can’t afford it. Then we feel guilty, and I mean all of those feelings kind of pop up, and then we’re like ‘Oh, we stay small and we keep our rates low.’ 

I just think that having a podcast or YouTube channel or some way of providing free or a lower cost way of consuming your genius. That way you can take away that guilt because you have something for the people who can’t afford you right now. Hopefully they’ll remember that when they can afford you. 

C: Completely. I love that you’re pointing this out. It’s the same reason I host a podcast for my business called ‘Think like a Producer.’ I co-hosted with my long time business partner, who is a queen of video. 

Another thing that I think is so helpful to keep in mind to build upon this is that you are not only helping people who have more time than money, right? A lot of small business owners when they start they got a lot of time, not a lot of money. But you’re guiding them through the process of how to make more money, so that by the time they have more money than time, it’s like they are already in the mindset that you would ideally have had them in.

I agree, it’s such an exchange of value for someone to give you their time and respecting that and making amazingly high quality content for an audience that pays you with their time. I just say never overlook that deeply respect any time you have a subscriber to your show, or download, or a view on a video. It’s so easy to be  ‘Oh, it’s just a view.’  I’m like ‘Oh no, somebody gave you their time.’ That is priceless. I do think that that energetically translates to your audience. When you make really good free content, they will value it and it will come back around for sure. 

P: Yeah, I totally believe in that. What you put out there is what you’re gonna get back, I’m not a woo person. I think I’m very vocal about that. In this case, I’m like ‘OK, but you get back what you put out in your attitude.’

C: Yeah, even on the most basic level it’s a reputation. You build a reputation for being a high value business owner who contributes great stuff, and that reputation will go so far in a world where there’s a lot of not great content that’s just engineered to create attention but really has no value. It’s very easy to stand out as a brand that provides high value.

P: Loving the direction of this conversation. So far we’ve spoken about the opportunities that lie in creating this kind of content. We’ve spoken about the cost that it has, both money wise and other costs like your time. And we’ve spoken about playing to your strengths, to really bring out the best in you and put your best foot forward.

So how do we actually now go about producing this amazing content that hopefully by now we’re all convinced that we need to make it and put it out in the world and that we need to do it in a sustainable way? So how do we do that? 

C: Excellent. I’m so glad we got here because I know it can be frustrating to hear all the why and never get to the how. So here’s what I would say. Once you’re clear on the return on investment that you want to get, you’re clear about your strengths and the kind of format of a show that’s going to play to those, and you’re clear about the audience you’re making this show for.You’ve talked to them, you’ve gotten really a solid idea of what they want. The first step to production is getting clear on your, I call it your bandwidth, but you could think about it, how much can I make? How much content do I actually have time to make? It’s easy to think I have to have a weekly hour-long show with a guest. That is not true. You could do so many different kinds of a show. You could do two episodes a month only. You could do a seasonal show where you just record, let’s say, eight episodes, and you put it out all at the same time and then you take a six month break. You only put out two seasons a year and they’re super awesome, high quality, well thought out episodes. You could just batch record them. You could send them all to an editor at the same time. Get it completely done again. 

Let’s think through the same conversations. Do you have more money? Do you have more time? When do you have time during the year? Some people, their summer is completely booked. Kids out of school don’t get any work done, not happening. No podcast happening during the summer. So maybe you do a show that runs September through April, and that is  your podcast season. It’s so valuable to get clear first on your actual bandwidths as far as recording, producing, what times a year am I doing launches? Or it’s just the super busy season for my business so that would be a bad time to try and be hosting a show. 

Now, if you realise ’‘it doesn’t matter Christine, I can record an episode every week. It’s fine.’

Awesome. Maybe you do a weekly show forever and never take a break. Most of us need to think seasonally just because that’s life and we need to think when can I take season breaks? When can I record? Maybe I do want to fill my show, and I want to do a high quality and I have the resources for that. So how can I batch record episodes with the videographer? How much content could I make in a half day shoot?

So that might look like starting to interview videographers, video editors, maybe a production house. If you’re looking for that kind of support. Get really clear on, ‘here’s how much content I want to make here is the schedule. Here is the budget.’ These are all the essential conversations, and that way you’re setting yourself up to sustainably create a show that aligns with both the value you want to create for your audience, but also the actual time and money you have.It gives you a strategy to actually continue on.

The tragedy, which happens to a lot of people, so don’t feel bad if this has been you in the past, but it’s like ‘I have all this energy. I’m doing the show. I get out of the gate, I get a few episodes up, and then just the wheels come off the wagon. I can’t sustain it, I need help. It’s too much. It’s another week already! I’ve been travelling! I don’t have time to record an episode!’

A lot of shows just die within the first few episodes because there wasn’t enough preparatory time to really think through ‘how much support do I need? How much bandwidth do I have?’ So that’s step one. Even if you’re going to do this 100% by yourself like ‘what are you talking about? Other people? This is a solo production.’ Think really clearly. It is so helpful to do this even if you kind of already know ‘you know what? I’m really good about keeping my Friday’s open. I save those for personal projects. I know I can record a podcast every Friday morning.’ 

Amazing! Get that on the calendar and make sure that you’re committing to that for the next long while. The secret to success with media productions is consistency, among other things, but consistency is up there. So think through what you can commit to. And then the next step is to decide ‘Okay, I’m going to do an audio show, for example. Now I need to figure out the platform that I want to record it on.’

 There are so many good options. If you’re looking for just a breakdown of resources, I’ve got a great one, literally answering all the frequently asked questions of platforms, equipment, and software on my company’s website. We can put it in the show notes.

It’s worthfullmedia.com/resources I’ve literally just listed out for free my favourite of everything. So if you want to go there, you’re absolutely welcome to. 

You can also do a little bit of research, but you pick a recording platform or software. You obviously pick a microphone. If you’re going to do video, pick a camera or decide you’re just going to use your computer. There’s so many ways to create media now. I don’t want to tell you this is the way. But before you pick all your gear and your platforms and everything, I absolutely want you to think through the actual schedule and what you can commit to, then pick your platforms and gear. Then you’re going to figure out ‘OK, am I going to edit the show and I’m going to hire someone else to edit it?’  Once you figured that piece out, you’re ready to record, you see those steps before recording.

P: Yes, and this is where I jump in with my learning by doing it wrong and I’m going to share my experience so that whoever is listening can learn from my mistakes instead of making them themselves. 

So I did that classic ‘I’m going to have a weekly show.’ And I did. I kind of started off by the book, so I had a lot of episodes already batch recorded. They were in the bank, they were ready to go, already scheduled all of that. Then life happens and then two of those scheduled episodes were kind of eaten up by life events. And then you just never catch up. That can happen. It happened to me. 

And I just want to say there’s no harm in taking a step back and re-evaluating, because I’m guessing if you just started, you don’t have a massive listener base or a massive following over on YouTube. So I asked my audience, ‘how do you feel about me moving from weekly episodes to fortnightly episodes?’ and everyone was like ‘Yeah, fine, we don’t really mind. That’s fine.’

So I did that because that feels more sustainable for myself at the minute, and I’m actually considering now whether I should move to seasonal podcasting instead. So I’m in that process myself. So if you’re listening, don’t feel like you have to have everything. It won’t go. You can make adjustments if that’s what life is about. It takes some twists and turns, and sometimes we just have to adjust. Sometimes the only way to realise that something is not sustainable for you is to actually figure it out by doing it wrong. 

C: Absolutely. You were so generous with sharing your personal experience because you’re so not alone. Probably the majority of clients I’ve worked with, there’s some version of that.

Sometimes they have come to me because they had to show originally and it had to pause and it’s been several months, and they’re like ‘OK, restarting. Learned my lesson, getting support.’

But I do want to be a word of encouragement. You might be listening, and you might be like ‘I know I can do this. I’m pretty savvy. I’m not too afraid to learn a new platform. I’ve done a little bit of media in the past.’ You could totally do it yourself if you’re that type of person and it can be really fun. There’s this whole world of media creators out there who are just so eager to help. The world of podcasters and YouTubers who are out there with free tutorials and support and forums is massive. So if you have quite a bit of time and you’re looking to build a new skill and that sounds fun to you, you could totally do it. 

Both Petchy, and I want you to hear loud and clear, it is okay to choose a pace that works for you, to re-evaluate as you go, to shift, and your audience will absolutely move with you as long as you keep the conversation with them going. Just like Petchy said, she asked her audience ‘Hey, this is where I’m at. I’m thinking about switching. Give me some feedback. Does this still work for you?’ 

That is huge. Your audience will go where you lead as long as you talk to them, just keep them in the loop 

P: Also with the things that are back end, that people don’t see or hear, all of the little tasks. I mean it’s fine to start off doing them all yourself. I did it and then I actually I’m glad that I did, because then that gave me a sense of how much work goes into it. Then I could figure out the tasks that I actually enjoy doing. So obviously the recording and obviously I actually quite like to edit as well. I only do light editing, but it gives me a chance to listen back to the episode as I’m just chopping out a few of the ‘uhms’ and awkward pauses and stuff. But transcripts, oh my God, transcripts are the bane of my life!  And my podcast host has this service where you can get an automatic transcript from your episode. But, I mean, that is just hilarious. Some of the results that it puts out it’s just, yeah… and I realised that this was sucking my energy out. I had no patience for that and so that’s something that I’ve outsourced to my wonderful VA Melissa. I’m gonna give her a mention in the show notes because she’s amazing. She takes that hilarious auto transcription and turns it into actual readable show notes for me. I don’t think there’s any shame in outsourcing stuff either you don’t like or it’s not making any money for you, or moving you in the direction you want.

There are people out there. There are people out there who love the things that you hate to do. 

C: You said it, and that is  such a perfect point to just make sure we squeeze in here before we wrap, that it is extremely unlikely you will enjoy every single part of media production.  There are unicorns out there, but they are truly rare. So playing to your strengths, not just in choosing a format, but in choosing the workload that you’re taking on and outsourcing

everything else you possibly can is actually the strategy for sustainability and success. We’re both here to tell you no show that you love is produced solo. It’s just not so if you’re looking from the outside in and being  ‘Oh my gosh, this brilliant show, they just seem to magically hit record, and it’s perfect and has everything that anyone ever wanted!’ There’s probably a team of multiple people. I’ve worked on those teams. I’ve managed those teams. So it is 100% essential to remember deciding to host a show and launch a show means you get to have support. It might start off with AI generated transcripts and a lot of automation, and that is okay. Then as you get the bandwidth and you can outsource, it will just get better and better and better. 

P: It will. I promise. I can’t wait for the next iteration of my podcast. So watch this space. Okay, we could sit here and chat for hours and hours on end, but I think we’re going to have to wrap up, and before we do that, I would love to invite you. I always ask every single guest to wrap up the episode If they were only allowed to give the listeners one single tip. Something that’s easy to take away and implement today, what would that be? 

C: The tip I’m going to share is that media is an amazing tool that’s never been more available for all of us to use for good. If you’re willing to do just a little bit of introspection and research, you can find a channel that will allow you to serve your dream audience in a massive way. If you are feeling like there’s no more space, it’s all been done, everyone is better than me, I don’t know where to start. You’re not alone. But you’re also not thinking about it in a way that’s actually going to get you where you want to go. There is support available. There’s tools available. You’re not going to do this on your own, but you can absolutely create amazing media that will serve your audience in a massive way and bring your dream clients if you just think about it strategically and go at your own pace.   

P: Awesome. So if my listeners now want to go and learn more from you, connect with you. Where can they find you?

C: Come to my company’s website. It’s called Worthfull media, just worthfullmedia.com You’ll find, like I said, a resources page. We’ve got a podcast and at YouTube channel totally free. You can see what kind of work we do. We have an amazing weekly email newsletter that I write, where I truly share everything I just learned from the week. So I’ve tried to create as many resources for you to just easily hop right int. If you  email, if you podcast, YouTube, or if you just need a one page with resources, it’s all over there at worthfullmedia.com

P: Thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom with us today, this has been a great conversation!

C: Thank you!

PS! I have decided I want to connect with more awesome people in 2022. If you’d like to grab a virtual cuppa with me, find a time here.

Until next time,

Petchy xx

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